Instead, the camel is killed by a certain "accursed Amar", and the camel's foal stands upon a rock and curses Thamud, leading to the tribe's annihilation except for a single lame woman who is spared to spread the message of the destruction. Indeed, the Quran states that many generations came after the first tribe of Thamud without specifying an exact timeline. . I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. Claim that the Edomites are not Thamud thus the verses are irrelevant. Here our discussion lies around the location of the thamud people and the houses/tombs they carved out of the stones and mountains. The Edomites and Thamud Routledge. Later still, we find them mentioned by Ptolemy (d. 168AD), in his Geography.6. [Quran11:6168(Abdel Haleem)], The Islamic exegetical tradition adds detail to the Quran's account. It is likely, then, that most of the artifacts in this region belonged to the many generations of those who came after them as the Quran mentions. That these are the people of Aad, is hinted by a Nabataean inscription in Wadi Ramm, at a temple dedicated to the goddess Allat. If you keep that mindset, youll go far, Inshallah. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. Like the people of Ad, they erected huge buildings on the plains and hewed beautiful homes out of the hills. However, not all of them were destroyed; Salih and hisfollowers continued to live on. [2] The Quran endorses this fact; they were not outright destroyed and the believers survived: Then look! The ruins were identified by the Prophet (s) as belonging to those who wronged themselves, without ascribing them to the very first tribe of Thamud. [27], The migration of Arab tribes to Mesopotamia began in the seventh century, and by the late 20th century constituted about three quarters of the population of Iraq. Can someone please answer 89:9 because Im really stuck on this verse. So bring on whatever punishment you say is coming to us.. I believe carving out structures in hills and mountains may have been a common practice within the ancient Arabia and its surroundings based on both the Biblical and Quranic accounts. As for the wells, studies have shown that the Nabateans were experts in the field of irrigation and a lot of wells was attributed to them. They may have even intermingled to the point of losing any distinction along ethnic lines as there is no good reason or evidence to preclude the idea that the Thamud also ventured and lived in Petra and the surrounding areas. My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. Perhaps these survivors were Prophet Hud (AS) and his followers. The tribes of Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. And of course, they were also polytheists. To Aad was sent the prophet Hud; to Thamud, Saleh, and together with another mysterious figure, Shoaib, they constitute the only three pre-Islamic prophets mentioned in the Quran that have an exclusive Arab provenance. Having similar names doesnt mean much This is the temple that was built by the tribal unit of Thamud, the leaders of their unit, so that it might be established by their hands and be their place of veneration for ever7. Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. Source: Sahih Muslim 2981, Grade: Sahih, . The same can be said of Median Saleh, much of the area is still hidden under sand. Hence I clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to be the weakest of all interpretations. The tribes of Arabia engaged in nomadic herding and agriculture since 6000 BCE. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. What is the issue here? Trudy Ring, Noelle Watson, Paul Schellinger. The Bible Having failed to save his people, Salih warned that they would be destroyed after three days. due to the belief as mentioned in the Quran that warners were sent to all Nations. 2. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. [5] In 1846, many Arab Rashaida migrated from Hejaz in present-day Saudi Arabia into what is now Eritrea and north-east Sudan after tribal warfare had broken out in their homeland. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. Obviously, the Thamud were much more advanced technologically than the Aad. While every effort has been made to follow citation style rules, there may be some discrepancies. After several centuries of independent existence, it was finally incorporated into the Roman empire in 106 AD. If not, then why do we need to find the remains of Thamud? SSH and Password-less communication using SSH, Basics of Cryptography and Digital Signature, The Quranic tribes of 'Aad and Thamud - a historical perspective, Lenin khuda ke huzoor mein: A simplified commentary, Q 7:74 mentions Thamud as building houses out of mountains, while Q 54:31 confirms that they were destroyed by a shriek. Chapter (41) srat fuilat (Explained in Detail) Sahih International: But if they turn away, then say, "I have warned you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt [that struck] 'Aad and Thamud.. Pickthall: But if they turn away, then say: I warn you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt (which fell of old upon the tribes) of A'ad and Thamud;. Archeologists have put these ruins from the first century BCE and the first century CE. ""- . these 2 ayat that have been repeated elsewhere are a beautiful reminder of the lessons to be learned and ibra from the civilizations that have long gone and their signs remain for those that follow and there are many such examples of these very beautiful and instructive verses. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia. [20] The traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham. And as for Aad, they were destroyed by a screaming violent windstorm which Allah imposed on them for seven days and eight nights straight. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. But the shriek seized them at early morning. The facades vary in height and in the richness of their decorations. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. you who live in the clefts of the rocks[a] Perhaps they couldnt understand the significance of receiving a camel. [2] We do not know where they went, but they carried on the practice of stone carvings in the mountains. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. Other later Arab migrations in Iran include the mostly cross Gulf migrations of Arabs into Hormozgan and Fars provinces from modern day eastern Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States, post 16th century. the nation of Shuayb (as) is mentioned (78-79). [15], But despite the presence of a tribe called the Thamud as late as the fourth century, sixth-century Arab poets whose works are preserved in post-Islamic sources were already referring to the Thamud as an ancient and long-lost tribe whose very name recalled the transience of all things. And when they conqured people, they did so in a harsh, brutal, and ruthless manner. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. They are related to Thamd only in being much later structures sharing the same geographical location. Certain objections can and may arise with the above narrative. It is estimated by some historians that Moses (s) lived around the 16th century BCE. And 'Ad and Thamud (people)! Al-Arab al-Ba'ida (Arabic: ), "The Extinct Arabs", were an ancient group of tribes of prehistory that included the 'd, the Thamud, the Tasm, the Jadis, the Imlaq (who included branches of Banu al-Samayda), and others. (2/434), As for the related Hadith reports related to the incident during the Tabuk expedition they either do not mention Thamud by name or say. Our editors will review what youve submitted and determine whether to revise the article. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. They were 6 meters tall! The Nabateans have not left us with any records, thus inscriptions become the primary dating of these structures. In Umayya's account, there is no Salih. Look, it doesnt matter if you warn us or dont warn us, were not going to listen to you. from there I will bring you down, The leftover of Ad were taken and built over by Thamud. Expel Jews and Christians from Arabian Peninsula? 63-65. So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. Its in their records, that we find out first mention of Thamud. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Think over this in detail. By not on the surface, I mean that they did not exist like a proper city or open to any passer by and were deep inside some unvisited territory. Several broken columns in the ruins of Wadi Ramm have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Quran. The pagan Arabs were acquainted with their existence but nothing more is known about them. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. [28] [11] An important exception is a temple at al-Ruwfa in northwestern Saudi Arabia, built by the Thamd themselves in the 160s CE. It is possible that the dwelling areas are no longer visible in the last 1400 years as these are just small rooms and tombs with no space inside. A Warning to the Disbelievers and a Reminder of the Story of `Ad and Thamud. [17] The Muslim governor of Egypt encouraged the migration of tribes from the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt to increase the Muslim population in the region and to strengthen his regime by enlisting warrior tribesmen to his forces, encouraging them to bring their families and entire clans. Before sending the punishment on them, Allah sent two prophets to these nations. [7][8] In a somewhat muddled passage, Pliny the Elder, a Roman historian of the first century CE, appears to locate the Thamd at the unidentified inland town of "Baclanaza". And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. So nothing availed them [from] what they used to earn. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. Pickthall And (the tribes of) A'ad and Thamud! Like some of the tombs have window openings and some of the niches are not much more wide than a hand, which hardly can serve as a resting place for a human body. While certain online Christian communities are abuzz with elation and glee, some Muslims are faced with difficulties in formulating a proper response to the latest Christian accusation. Moreover, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it. Much of the lineage provided before Ma'ad relies on biblical genealogy, so questions persist concerning the accuracy of this segment of Adnanite Arab genealogy. Now we dont see the remains of Nuhs AS people now do we? They were so proud of their accomplishments, that they built huge castles, palaces, and other structures as symbols of their power. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Bani, Banu. I dont know and this is a good aspect of the Quran; it does not go into such things and instead instructs us to focus on the message and not the nitty gritty. In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of Gods chosen prophets and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. 4) That the ORIGINAL dwellings in the valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further. And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land, [and] you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. . Doesnt 14:45 talk about there dwellings were standing tall untouched, If you could get back to me that would be great jazzakkallah, 14. It does not imply that they were carved by members of the ancient tribe of Thamd. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. Is their carved construction still there today? The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. The fact that he showed them the well of the she-camel and confirmed the area as geographically related to Thamd but made no comment on the tombs shows that he knew they were unrelated to any previous Prophet. 6. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. They were more sophisticated than the Aad. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. After the destruction of the Ad, the tribe of Thamud succeeded them in power and glory. 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