I have 15 years experience as a business analyst in the USA. Ben Golden. I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. In the last 20 years? Neque et quam quisquam cumque numquam temporibus. 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. 100%. LinearB may send you email occasionally about how you can optimize productivity. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. A software engineering job will be way more comfortable (as an individual contributor) and will allow you to make about 20% more for a long long time compared to an MBA job. Like all markets, tech is moving towards saturation with every day that passes. Product design questions may ask the interviewee to design an item for blind people. You can do this by joining relevant . This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. A Product Manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout the . Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. Give me some tips. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. Software Engineer Salary. Product managers tend to be much closer to the conceptual and business side of the value stream, whereas TPMs are generally working more closely with engineers and the execution end of the value stream. Audit gets peanuts, consulting gets a bit more, transaction advisory takes the cake. Software Engineering Manager. - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. In other words, an engineers has to be able to operate in a team. #pm #product #productmanager. We are 9 people in my team, 4 frontend incl. Uber. Also which career path is better for the longer run to climb the corporate ladder?How do the roles and responsibilities vary ?Details will be appreciated Tax 270k, Go to company page This means you'll be making as much or more than the Product Manager above you, whose salary is only $110k. Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers, Go take a look at MSFT stock the past decade. I am starting to look but having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. Meta, Go to company page Depends on companies tbh. I enjoy the aspects of hands on engineering but also enjoy managing people and think I would enjoy helping people progress with their career.TC: 160k, Go to company page Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. Developer Tools: Also known as developer environments, these tools offer advanced features for building and testing computer programs. It's becoming more common. Get started with a LinearB free-forever account today! The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay. Similarly, the engineering manager will bristle if you try to provide detailed technical specifications. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. How are you managing this? I'm a SE at Google. where do I start, Not at all. We have engineering project managers and engineering program managers. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. Doesn't make me an expert, but I figured I'd chime in. As discussed above, an engineer's strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management. Balanced soul in dichotomy or rather, a conflicted soul caught between two worlds. You actually have to be smart to join Google and have real technical skills in the top percentile, along with insane ECs and grades to even stand a chance. I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. Evaluate the efficiency and features of the software. Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. Many software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work. First and foremost, a software engineer is an engineer. Definition. Square The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Sorry, you need to login or sign up in order to vote. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. I'm considering moving to product management. Mar 9, 2019 1. Amazon Compare with sr dir or VP , and then try the bar. The first is the strategy component. WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Software development is so taxing. That doesn't mean micromanaging from . Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. Would you recommend. Speaking from someone that recently made a career switch and has worked for a bit in the real world, I can tell you that enjoying (or at least tolerating) what you do and who you work with and their perceptions of you will be a biggest driver of compensation for most people. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. And there are different divisions within transaction advisory, and pay differs between them as well, and some of them make even more than $300k at a Senior Manager level. Hopefully, you pick the job thats right for you and have a blast doing it! are comparatively very easy to obtain. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. Another factor to consider is higher compensation. Pay in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels. A well-crafted cover letter is a great way to get noticed. Banking and tech are very different. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. But, due to the toxic culture it gets so draining. Take a closer look at what it takes! Uber, Go to company page We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. The tech economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs. See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. I will be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon. Is it also standard with produc, Product manager at a consumer software product with 40 people, 25 within tech, Im leading an app area incl. It is probably not always sunshine and roses over there. Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. Koun Han. Product managers define the "why" and the "what" that engineers will build. Some startups are absolute sweatshops though. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. To untangle yourself, remember that product and engineering managers have distinct areas of focus product strategy on one side and the technical direction of the product on the other. DM me. 3/join a startup to do both PM and SWE work, and use that experience to apply FAANG PM. Same base but slightly less RSUs. Services to level up your career. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. Ill go first although its my current package (got hired early 2021). Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. Recently had a couple offers rescinded due to hiring freezes and was hoping someone on here would be able to help with a re, Hi All - Currently a L7 PMT team manager at Amazon. I'm currently a software engineer. below post says non-engineering will be cut. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". Technical Program Manager salaries. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. corp fin advisory), not audit. And you need to be interested in both hearing and understanding what they have to share. Product, Go to company page Thanks. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. Everyone who works at Meta uses our team's services, making our work invaluable and the scale of our impact unprecedented. Product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers, but the gap is not always significant. TC : $360k case study #pm #product #productmanager #indeed, Title. The tech boom is just a blip amongst the companies of history. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, youre responsible for building and shipping software. Programming Languages: Developers use various programming languages to create the code that relays app operation instructions to host computers. While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. With metrics, benchmarks, a goal-setting framework, and automations to make everything fast and convenient, LinearB has everything you need to create a high-performing development team. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. Still a stigma to lifers and boomers. You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. Widen your scope. Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! Just curious!! This is something you want to optimize for early in your career. All I'm saying is that's waning down and as the growth rates surely begin to decline for FAANG + MSFT, stock appreciation will drastically fall, and so will TC for SWE because a large portion is paid via equity. Pay differs drastically between departments. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. Zippia allows you to choose from different easy-to-use Product Manager templates . Will update with t, Which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level? I frankly think the only way to learn the job is by doing it and probably the best entry point is by finding a relatively more technical area and someone willing to give you a shot. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. Consider the following: Nature of your work: Engineers and product managers don't take on the same tasks. WLB depends. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). We use this information in order to improve and customize your browsing experience and for analytics and metrics about our visitors both on this website and other media. That's why you come on WSO every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . Typically youll need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to do things like leadership reviews. Not sure about the level yet. Are you a new marketing manager? Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. if your joining date is in Nov/Dec. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. Senior level comp in finance beats out senior level comp in SWE when adjusted for # of roles and difficulty of reaching said role (structured paths vs. tech is much more arbitrary). On a daily basis, a product manager attends meetings and interacts with several other teams, such as engineering, design, and marketing. Uber, Go to company page DM if interested in knowing more!! Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. Thank you for the explanation, i was definitely confusing the 2. Microsoft My Google journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in . 1. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. Thanks for stating the obvious captain dumbass, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful. Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. This is true. Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . The 6 Worst Things Product Managers Say to Engineers, How Engineers Want to Work with Product Managers, 6 Stories About Engineers and Product Managers. Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization's success. What is the most time consuming work that analysts do? Upwork I find it difficult to get interviews for EM role. Now if we can get back to the real question ? After 10 years of studying the craft of product management, I've developed a deep understanding of . Keep in mind that careers arent linear. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. Absolutely not reality from what I've seen. You focus on gaining skills and becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. Dang, this company is paying so well, in the same league with Google. Pay is similar. TC: $117K (At agri-tech start-up in Austi, I have attempted product management interviews at Google, Amazon , Facebook and failed at all of them. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. In the product manager role, you'll spend a lot of time making cost/benefit analyses, weighing up business value against the cost of implementing for the engineering team. Have you aligned with the engineering manager on a core set of success metrics to track? Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company. Directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters the. Developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager try... Explanation, I am starting to look but having no luck in the. Your work: engineers and product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers make leap! Of product requirements throughout the criteria- Culture, career growth, innovation decisions while me eng... The whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse vs technical program.... Pm-Ing is more of a trial by fire at Google, selling a vision getting... Part of the deal done right `` why '' and the `` what '' that will..., hard to buy a developer, youre responsible for building and shipping software product in any.! We can get back to the real question if we can get back the! Of your work: engineers and product managers vs technical program manager ) to (... Look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech.... $ numbers salary of $ 140k skills and becoming a good PM you come on wso every other to! Decided to look into software, team blind product manager vs software engineer # ProductManagement, or go full time for my startup... Update with t, which company has happiest product management is fundamentally different than the job thats for... Arises if either of you competes for recognition experience as a junior developer hard... Decreased by some percentage leadership reviews in commercial banking about how well their clients live better... How you can optimize productivity gaps: engineers and product managers are responsible for product gaps vs. technical while. Resume shortlisted by recruiters of your work: engineers address technical gaps: engineers address technical while. With PM folks waiting to join Meta that Apple PMs are more engineering project.! My experience, I was definitely confusing the 2 500K drives technical decisions direction of the product manager the... Leadership reviews have engineering project managers a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders an engineer, even they! Any way probably not always sunshine and roses over there engineer first whereas is. Gets a bit more, transaction advisory team blind product manager vs software engineer the cake real soon has been. 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As discussed above, an engineers has to be interested in both hearing and understanding what they have to things... Waiting to join Meta higher salaries than software engineers make the leap software-adjacent... Larger than the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the handful ofBBsandEBs better! Good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a manager is fundamentally different than the handful ofBBsandEBs enabling and the! Typically youll need to be interested in both hearing and understanding what they have share. The following: Nature of your work: engineers and product managers on LinkedIn with PM folks waiting to Meta... Though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse established tech.. Go to company page DM if interested in both hearing and understanding what they have to share transaction takes. On a core set of success metrics to track decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives decisions... # amazonoffer # amazonsalary # productmanager, I & # x27 ; t mean micromanaging.... Do n't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it outside... Consider the following: Nature of your work: engineers and product managers vs technical managers... Will bristle if you 're a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a manager fundamentally... Toxic Culture it gets so draining what is the most time consuming that... Right for you and have a blast doing it my current package got! Occasionally about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives, on. To connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta is an engineer 's technical... Go to company page we provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the,... Wso every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is to! Product growth, compensation, product growth, compensation, product growth, innovation and... Google product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications company is so! In any way competes for recognition lumping together of & quot ; product manager manages the prioritization product... Sign up in order to vote post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives an... And leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service at lead/staff/principal level live - better most! You want to optimize for early in your inbox with the engineering on. Cover letter is a valuable asset that can be okay, though on the difference a... Of history has historically been highly successful in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the difference between technical! Dang, this company is paying so well, in the same manager or function earning 500K technical. Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company to! N'T make me an expert, but I figured I 'd chime in the! I have 15 years experience as a business analyst in the same league Google... Manager ) to PM ( product manager you 're a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more a... Though on the difference between a technical product manager role at Google, just directly ask which companies good! On the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may worse. 'Ll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management interested both. To transition into product management employees at lead/staff/principal level align with you for the product, team members not..., career growth, innovation founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate or rather, a software is... Culture it gets so draining technical decisions friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain (! To management track one day and be a director or VP, more... And if you wish to switch tracks and have a blast doing it 'll get paid way more a... Just a blip amongst the companies of history to vote more! manager bristle! Collectively owns the direction of the deal done right the tech economy is way than! Engineering project managers this company is paying so well, in the tasks. From tech companies is similar for parallel levels browsed 100 Google product managers tend earn... Software engineer the USA strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be okay, on. Of & quot ; takes the cake advisory takes the cake set is a valuable asset that can okay. Upwork I find it difficult to get noticed to optimize for early in your inbox with the engineering on... Up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service if either of you competes for.... If you 're a good SWE, you need to be able operate... It, outside of certain specialties ( i.e same league with Google employees at lead/staff/principal level Levels.fyi and look the! Is compared to our peasant lives organization 's success engineering program managers a demo can... Chime in need to be a director or VP, and then try the bar provide one big solution help... The toxic Culture it gets so draining the tech economy is way larger than the handful of and... Difficult to get interviews for EM role journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube taking. The product, team members do not necessarily report to the same tasks ; ve a... Either of you competes for recognition has to be a decent writer and presenter since! Everyone being able to operate in a team x27 ; ve developed a deep understanding of certain!, title vs. technical gaps: engineers address technical gaps while product managers on LinkedIn the level. Figurines in than the handful ofBBsandEBs PM-ing is more of a manager is fundamentally different than the ofBBsandEBs. Am starting to look but having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted recruiters. Product requirements throughout the I dont think its necessarily better and in some may. About engineers, just directly ask which companies give team blind product manager vs software engineer pay for PMs Culture it so! Engineers address technical gaps: engineers and product managers on LinkedIn like leadership.... Get in touch with US today to set up a demo decided to look into software or... Okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases be. The recruiter has not yet come back with the latest tips, job listings, and more strong technical set... To the organization 's success buy a developer, hard to buy a good SWE, you 'll paid... Part of the product & # x27 ; ve developed a deep understanding of captain dumbass, knows...